RR8 - Semi Live

[Gotrovr]

We rolled into PSR just past 12AM.

Chuck's DII has developed a noise somewhere in either front drive shaft or diff. We will diagnose further in the morning. Pics to follow

What good timing. Lutzi caught up with us just past the turnoff from 395 heading to PSR while we were pulled off the road inspecting the noise.

stay tuned

[RON CT110]

Have a safe fun trip!

Hope Chuck finds another driveshaft; saw his post on LRRF; believe Joe or Badfysh has his stock D4 front driveshaft still for sale. Good luck to Chuck!

[lilcrawler]

don't have phone access here. Is it possible to have you call around to the SoCal boys? Also wondering if Frank/Tony are on-line and might be able to help with situation... main question is how far they'd recommend driving with the front shaft pulled and CDL engaged... worst case I could drive to Vegas today and pick something up b4 Saturday but hopefully somebody will see the posts and help out..

[Tony DII]

don't have phone access here. Is it possible to have you call around to the SoCal boys? Also wondering if Frank/Tony are on-line and might be able to help with situation... main question is how far they'd recommend driving with the front shaft pulled and CDL engaged... worst case I could drive to Vegas today and pick something up b4 Saturday but hopefully somebody will see the posts and help out..

Tyler,

It will be fine to drive it home with front shaft removed and cdl engaged. Wont hurt a thing. Is shaft loose or are we in the early stages of diagnosis still?

[RON CT110]

Tony just posted!

And Joe replied that he has his front driveshaft is avail and dropping it off with Omid who will be heading.


don't have phone access here. Is it possible to have you call around to the SoCal boys? Also wondering if Frank/Tony are on-line and might be able to help with situation... main question is how far they'd recommend driving with the front shaft pulled and CDL engaged... worst case I could drive to Vegas today and pick something up b4 Saturday but hopefully somebody will see the posts and help out..

[Gotrovr]

Guys,

no cell service at PSR/RR8

back up on navigation laptop

siting in shrek wind howling, one bastard ale consumed

support crew attempting to remove stripped bolts from front drive shaft while I type

welcoming arrival of replacement DS

problem now confined to either front diff or t-case, yet to be diagnosed by present detour to pub across the street. wind still howling
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[PCRover]

Thanks for the update! Staying out of the wind in the Pub sounds like a good idea. Post some pic's!

[Desertcrawler]

Rig runs fine. No front end troubles. Omid from SCLR is bringing a loaner shaft from Badyfsh Joe so I can still run the trails tommorow. It's abut 7:30 right now, poor internet access but hope to see Omid soon and start the install of the new shaft tonite..

[RON CT110]

Good to hear Chuck! That Driveshaft (DS) on the way. Thanks to Joe and Omid.

So what do you think casued the DS problem? Wear and Tear! Damaged from prior trip...

And the broken DS, was it stock or HD type?

[Gotrovr]

replacement shaft on, 20 minutes

wind light and variable, clear skys, visibility unimited

thanks again to everyone who helped

unable to upload pics on account of poor internet speed
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[PCRover]

Good news! Thanks for the update!

[Gotrovr]

Guys,

I have bad news regarding Shrek

I tipped on my left side

Recovery event will surely make it on youtube

3 trucks 2 winches and 1 strap with 2 others

pics to follow

truck started after sitting on side for over an hour, drove back to camp, actually took lead due to oil ingested MAF and no air filter

pics to follow

wind now calm, weather is beautiful
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[PCRover]

You guys are having quite an event! Hope there isn't to much damage...

What is it with NCLR trucks on there sides at large gatherings?

[jhmover]

NCLR = Northern California Land Rollover?

[PCRover]

Don't let that one get out...;)


NCLR = Northern California Land Rollover?

[Gotrovr]

Guys,

thanks for the replies

we're going to need a really big sticker

both left side doors, B pillar toast

sticker window survived intact

now packing for home

will post pics at earliest
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[RON CT110]

[QUOTE=Gotrovr;2449]Guys,

we're going to need a really big sticker

QUOTE]

Now that's a classic! :)

Great attitude and spirit!

Have a safe trip back home!

[ROVRMAN2]

Wil also injured left hand, I prevented future injuries it by donating to him a lev-o-gauge for future flop prevention.

Hope the injury heals quickly.

[Tony DII]

Ouch Will,

Sorry to hear of the news. Glad you are ok, sounds like a sore paw and a dented side. I wonder if Shrek is beyond repairs?

[PCRover]

You know he has been wanting a 109 or 110...


Ouch Will,

Sorry to hear of the news. Glad you are ok, sounds like a sore paw and a dented side. I wonder if Shrek is beyond repairs?

[astateofmike]

Beyond repair? For Will? Come on....

Well Eric/Norcal may be able to assist in a 110 if it is so needed. I am just glad to have been lucky enough to drive Shrek once.....it is a good example of what TO do..

[Gotrovr]

wow what a great trip

having trouble typing with broken bone in left hand

just back from local ER

arrived earlier after 9 hour drive in RV towing shrek with right hand on wheel and left hand in ice bucket

bones will heal, no worries

shrek is my concern...

[PCRover]

Sorry to hear about the hand, hope it heals quickly.

Keep us posted on Shrek, will there be repairs done or is it too early to tell?


wow what a great trip

having trouble typing with broken bone in left hand

just back from local ER

arrived earlier after 9 hour drive in RV towing shrek with right hand on wheel and left hand in ice bucket

bones will heal, no worries

shrek is my concern...

[lilcrawler]

Day 1 & 2

We left at about 3:00 in the afternoon and came down Kings Mtn. Rd. We stopped at Roberts Market for a snack and continued on towards Death Valley. We met Will in Tehachepi at about 8:00. We ate dinner and fueled up. As we pulled out of the gas station dad started hearing a funny noise coming from the front drive shaft. At the next rest stop we stopped and decided to take a look. The drive shaft was a little loose but semmed to be okay. We continued on and reached camp at 3:00 am. Chuck and Will sent out a message for help and posted it on the SCLR, NCLR, and LRRFORUMS boards. The internet didn't work very well and Will forgot his battery charger, so it was lucky to get out. Finally, we set up camp and went to bed.

The next day we woke up and talked to Henny from the las vegas club. He gave us the phone number to a place in Vegas owned by one of their Directors that we could call that had shafts in stock! But then Chuck and Will checked the message boards and on LRRFORUMS as well as the SCLR board Joe Badyfsh offered to lend us one for the trip! And he had already dropped it off with the SCLR President Omid to deliver!

We took off the drive shaft although we had some trouble because of stripped bolts. We figured out that maybe something was wrong with the Transfer Case With some help from Frank and Tony. After that we preran Defense Mine in Shrek because our rig didn't have a drive shaft. We found a gully to drive in and decided to take the vehicles tomorrow through it. Its challenge level was easy to moderate. We followed the gully and saw that it met up with the main road. We found the main road and decided to drive back to camp. We saw some burrows on the way back and Greg took some pictures. I didn't have my camera with me.

[lilcrawler]

Day 3

We woke up ate some bagels and went over to the gas station to line up our vehicles. We left with 11 rigs one of them stock with no CDL. We found the trail head. We started down the road and found our gully from yesterday.
We turned and headed towards the main road. We didn't have much trouble with Will spotting the stock guy. Near the end of the wash a couple of people needed help with a strap. At lunch time somone got stuck and needed a lot of help. Will went back to help while the rest of us continued on for lunch. Finally we got him unstuck and continued to defense mine. The guys in the stock D11 rode with us to defense mine. Will decided to try water fall 0 and was succesful. When we got to the mine I led every body up the ladders and out the secondary exit. We couldn't find the trail down the mountain so we ended up glesading. We started back to camp and reached waterfall 0 when we heard a call over the CB "Somebody flipped". We quickly turned around and saw Will in his side. We recovered him and had some trouble finding the inertia switch. After we fixed the enjine we went back to camp and ate dinner. After dinner was the raffle. We won 2 cofee cups and a hat!

1. Crawling the gulch
2. Crawling the gulch
3. Trying to get rid of a stuck diff
4. Crawling the gulch
5. Rollover
6. Carnage
7. Rollover
8. Rollover
9. Rollover
10. Carnage

[PCRover]

Thanks for the report Tyler, great job as always!

[lilcrawler]

After leaving at noon, we drove all the way back and got in by 8am. Along the way, we stopped for some jerky and left a couple of things behind on their window. Can you see what I am talking about?


Dad was listening to Johnny Cash and there was a song about a dog named Shep and it made him think about Shrek. We sure hope Shrek doesn't end up like Shep at the end of the song. After all, Shrek faithfully started back up and led the Defense mine run the rest of the way home after the rollover..

[wineryrover]

Nice write up. Sorry to hear of the damage, Will. Hope you and shrek get better soon.

[Tony DII]

Good job Tyler.. Thanks for the report.

Looks like with a little TLC shrek can be repaired.

[Gotrovr]

Ann,

Nice meeting you and hopefully again someday.

How's this......

As embarrassed as I presently feel, I freely admit full responsibility by allowing shear stupidity to take over my average intelligence for a mere 5 seconds. The reality of the tip over event is that yes stuff happens. The details and circumstances leading to the tip-over are not as important as the events that took place soon after. My faith in the Rover community has never been higher. At one moment, we were innocently meandering back to camp along a benign section of trail from an adventurous and satisfying day, then snap roll, I’m on my side hand wedged between metal and rock, engine still running. Scared but not in panic mode, I called out for help, and fortunately for not being alone, it did arrive, swiftly, responsibly and in abundance. Immediately the first responders lifted the truck by brute force, enough to allow myself to extricate my hand. Sore and swollen, I turned the engine off and climbed out through the open passenger window. As the rest of the group descended on the scene, we took a moment and took inventory of the situation; one Rover on its side and the lone occupant driver safely free, conscience and intact, and ready to redeem himself with plenty of equipment and willing volunteers at hand. The recovery effort lasted approximately an hour requiring 2 winching vehicles, 1 anchor vehicle and many volunteers. Although, others may have done it faster, I am proud that it was accomplished safely and accurately. Looking back, I do admit not wearing gloves, but every grab was deliberate and with caution. In reflection, I really do need to thank all of those who helped with the recovery, especially Conal, Mike, Greg, Steve, Chuck, Sam and Lilcrawler. As for the events leading to the tip-over, remember only this. Do not purposely push your vehicles operating limits, for there is no going back.

Will Selden
PRESIDENT
Northern California Land Rover Club


-----Original Message-----
From: ann@writephoto.ca [mailto:ann@writephoto.ca (ann@writephoto.ca)]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2008 9:53 AM
To: president@nclrclub.org
Subject: Land Rover World Article
Hi Will,
Hope you made it back home in one piece. I meant to catch up with you Saturday night or Sunday morning to get more info about the rollover but it just didn't happen! I am wondering if you can send me a few sentences on how the spill happened and maybe a sentence with a 'what not to do' message. I am sorry to be asking at the last minute but my deadline is today so if you get this, I would appreciate a few bits. If you don't, that is fine too - I will just make up the details....kidding!
Thank you,
Ann

[PCRover]

Question Will, Do you think the new narrow and taller tires contributed to this accident in any way? Not that it was the tires fault, but maybe the new narrower and taller stance fooled you after being used to the smaller wider tires?

[lilcrawler]

Plus a video of some of the recovery operation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4WGYKZTAoQ

rig would not start (needed to reset inertia switch and drain oil out of air filter) -- so we needed to hook up another winch and pull down hill to get it to finally land back on 4 wheels. Once it did, we were able to start it and watch it lead us home (although with no air filter..)

[Desertcrawler]

This is Chuck (DesertCrawler) and I had the privilege of leading Defense Mine on Saturday. I wanted to pass on a few reflections on the trip.

First, thanks so much to SCLR for giving me the opportunity to lead the trip -- in more ways than one. My front driveshaft went out, we posted the call for help -- and Joe (Badyfsh) really stepped up along with Omid in getting me the loaner so I could lead the trail run the next day. The shaft is being dropped today and I'm sending it back as soon as I get the address to send it to...

Second, I really appreciated the chance to meet and spend time with the 11 folks on the Defense run. We took a different route than the two "standard" routes -- which included a pretty challenging crawl up a rocky gulch. It was great to see newbies (without sliders or CDL) learn their vehicles capabilities and watch how skills developed as the run went on. Will, NCLR President, did a great job as "tail end charlie" helping spot folks through places that I am sure were a lot more extreme than they expected..and the more built up rigs really helped out with recovery situations.

Third, as you may have heard, we had a Rollover on the trail. And yes, it was Will, one of the more advanced folks on the trip. He let his guard down, and on the very last obstacle of the day he decided to test his vehicles limits by taking a high line through a turn. Well -- testing limits sometimes means you reach them -- and he rolled near Waterfall 0. We all rallied and got through the recovery safely -- it was great seeing everyone pull together in an organized way to get us home safely. We were one of the last runs in (about 7:30) but made it in time for dinner and the raffle.

A few lessons learned (for me and future trip leaders) would be:

a)That gully crawl is a lot of fun. But probably too extreme for any vehicle without sliders and a CDL. Adding that to the front end of the run made beginning of the day a lot more exciting -- but make sure to budget enough time so you can make it to the mine by lunchtime. The Lookout run probably shouldn't be combined with this one if you take the gully...

b)Never let your guard down. That Rollover came at a totally unexpected time, near end of day, in a spot no-one really expected trouble. Because we were using "convoy" rules -- we were all within immediate response area and able to respond rapidly.

c)No drinking on trails was a good thing. I can only imagine the potential liablity had either the driver or some of the recovery participants been drinking and an accident happened. The recovery was smoother than just about any I've been involved in -- and everyone really pitched in to help.

d)Think about First Aid/Medical training - and carry your gear. We had several trained folks along on this run. Our club, NCLR, is sponsoring a 2 day Wilderness Emergency medical traing class. Had something serious happened, we were 2 hours away from help. As it was, a broken bone in the hand was all that resulted.

e)Recovery Bags are your friend. We ended up using chains, a pulley, a towstrap,a tree saver strap, and several D-shackles to pull off a pretty complex recovery. We used stuff from a number of rigs, but the bag I had contained a duplicate of everything needed. It really brought home the importance of "being prepared.."

f)When rolling, keep arms and legs in vehicle at all times..


Anyway, lilCrawler and I really appreciated the fellowship and fun. Looking forward to wheeling with you guys again, wherever RR9 may be. If Death Valley, stand by for an even better new and improved run next year...!

[PCRover]

Very well written Chuck! We can all learn from others experiences when shared as you did here.

[Gotrovr]

Question Will, Do you think the new narrow and taller tires contributed to this accident in any way? Not that it was the tires fault, but maybe the new narrower and taller stance fooled you after being used to the smaller wider tires?

Possible....... 265 to 255 regarding track width would be negligable IMO, however coupled with increased tire profile thereby raising center of gravity by 1 inch and adding jerry cans on rack..... :eek:

maybe we can get the myth busters to solve this question

[Disco12]

Will do you think you might get some steel wheels with more backspacing to increase the width!

Once shrek is healed

[Gotrovr]

Will do you think you might get some steel wheels with more backspacing to increase the width!

Once shrek is healed

I am not convinced they are required

[Gotrovr]

A response from Ann

Hello Will,
Thank you, thank you, thank you....sorry about the rig and hand but thank you thank you. I don't know what else to say except that I hope the hand is okay and that your rig will soon be in one piece. Shit happens - you got the worst of it. We all have our moments where we are distracted or all is well or we are just not paying attention and the worst happens. To be able to teach others by that mistake does not make it worth while but it at least makes it tolerable.
The way your group rallied around makes me happy to be a part of this community and, if ever there was a hesitation, reminds me of why I hang out with LR people. Keep me informed of any club events as I would be happy to advertise them if not attend them. Your group is a darn fine one and I sure enjoyed meeting them all. Good luck and please keep me informed of club events. Oh, and say 'hello' to Greg - he sure is a character.
Take care,
Ann

[Jantiz]

I have totally enjoyed reading about the trip. I join everyone else in wishing Will a fast recovery from the bashed hand and wishing Shrek will stand up to it's name and display Ogre like self-regenarative abilities so we can have it back out with us soon..., or else Will may have to lead the trails from his 20" lowpro Range Rover :eek:

The recovery efforts sound nothing short of amazing. While my wish would be that we never duplicate the conditions for such a recovery, I am trully sorry I missed it. Seeing the rig you guys describe in action had to be a sight to behold. I am never more impressed with people coming together to help a friend in need as when I see it happening time after time in the Land Rover Comunity. Both with the Front shaft as with the recovery. I think the people who make up NCLR rocks and I am just proud to be a part of it. Hope I can join in for the next one.

Yes... yes, Gary; you talked me into sliders for my LR3. Now I just need to explain to my wife why I need to dump $1,500 on a new Land Rover :D

[PCRover]

That is easy, it might prevent $5,000 in damage one day on the trail. :D

Are you going Nerf or No-Nerf?



Yes... yes, Gary; you talked me into sliders for my LR3. Now I just need to explain to my wife why I need to dump $1,500 on a new Land Rover :D

[norcal relics]

Well Eric/Norcal may be able to assist in a 110 if it is so needed. I am just glad to have been lucky enough to drive Shrek once.....it is a good example of what TO do..

I'm about to start a new thread for a very special trip...NCLR UK Billings 2008!!! I'll volunteer as trip leader, since I'm the only club member with a LR in the UK (for now!) Plus, I speak the language...:confused::confused:

Here's the show info:

http://www.billinglandrovershow.co.uk/index.html

Will has expressed serious interest, so get those Passport applications in!!!!

[ROVRMAN2]

Man,
Poor timing for me, since US $$ sucks. It's gonna be expensive getting there etc.
If only I could write it off......

[Gotrovr]

no excuse on passport, checking schedule and available $$$

[p m]

I'm about to start a new thread for a very special trip...NCLR UK Billings 2008!!! I'll volunteer as trip leader, since I'm the only club member with a LR in the UK (for now!) Plus, I speak the language...:confused::confused:
No Billings for me, but I'll be in London between May 24 and 28. Wonder if there's any fun besides city sightseeing at this time.

[HMBRover]

No Billings for me, but I'll be in London between May 24 and 28. Wonder if there's any fun besides city sightseeing at this time.

You can do a day trip from London to Solihull and do the factory tour. Take the train to Birmingham Airport and a taxi to the factory. Email ahead and get a reservation for the tour. Some days they are booked up. £30 for the tour only and it's great. Well worth the time and ££.

[p m]

You can do a day trip from London to Solihull and do the factory tour. Take the train to Birmingham Airport and a taxi to the factory. Email ahead and get a reservation for the tour. Some days they are booked up. £30 for the tour only and it's great. Well worth the time and ££.

Thanks!

[Jantiz]

That is easy, it might prevent $5,000 in damage one day on the trail. :D

Are you going Nerf or No-Nerf?



I'm still thinking that one over. Are you driving your LR3 to Mexxi's Saturday? I'd like to look it over real good one more time before I decide :rolleyes:

[lutz]

Had a great time cant wait till the next time .Heres the vid of shrek at waterfall 0.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsjBIitZwis

[Gotrovr]

Lutz, wonderful, now that has put a smile on my face from an unusually crappy day I've been having. I forgot to thank you as well. I'll have a cold one waiting for you at the next camp fire. :D

[Desertcrawler]

Maybe our issue was not having you return the same way you got there!

[RoverMack]

I'm about to start a new thread for a very special trip...NCLR UK Billings 2008!!! I'll volunteer as trip leader, since I'm the only club member with a LR in the UK (for now!) Plus, I speak the language...:confused::confused:

Here's the show info:

http://www.billinglandrovershow.co.uk/index.html

Will has expressed serious interest, so get those Passport applications in!!!!

It was a pleasure meeting you Eric briefly over ribs at the BBQ, it has been years since i attended "Billings". I was all set to dispute your claim to being the only club member with a LR in the UK, but i remember i transfered the ownership on my Lightweight V8 into my fathers name several years ago, but with the price of petrol it is only used for hauling logs and collecting coal. I have to visit the UK later this year but i do not think i will be able to arrange it around Billings.

[Desertcrawler]

http://t-r-j.com/DeathValley/DefenseMineTrail/defense_mine.htm

[RoverMack]

Will-Glad hear you returned home safely.

Managed to sort out my photos, and unpack the truck. Pictures at
http://spaces.msn.com/conalmack

I really had a great time and thanks to Chuck for leading the Defense Mine Trip, the challenging gulley route was great. Thank you for pre-running it etc.
That nifty driveshaft tool really does make the propshaft bolts a lot easier when on your back in the dirt changing a driveshaft.

I do not think the video or the photos really do justice to the recovery operation considering the overall difficulty (terrain, slope, angles, load etc). I was not surprised at all how the group co-ordinated the recovery efforts- it was an excellent group of people.

I am truely sorry to see that happen to anyone, but that Green Disco "shrek" had really impressed me when i had a chance to look closely at the suspension set up and see its overall performance on the trail. My vote is for reshelling it.

I have had some intresting moments in my P38 and roll overs are a risk, especially with my roof top tent and fuel can ( i have the mounts for a second jerry can- but have had some rather tippy moments already.)

[Gotrovr]

series of photos from RR8 taken by Greg Sperry with my camera

[Gotrovr]

a few more

[Gotrovr]

last set

[Gotrovr]

sample of people of RR8

[RoverMack]

The rest at http://spaces.msn.com/conalmack

[Desertcrawler]

Driveshaft is shot. Being rebuilt, using more extreme U-joints. The only non-greasable fitting in my existing shaft was bone dry. Working with vendor to see what sort of price break I can get..

May not be able to make Mexxi's gathering -- rig may stay in shop a little longer than I thought till things get resolved...